Asked Spiderman to Flygirl, "what is mind sans thought?"

The question, "what is mind sans thought?" is almost impossible to "answer", and there are no efforts - either well-placed or misplaced - which can lead one to such an experience, yet, that doesn't mean one shouldn't make some attempt - afterall, we were born with a mind, and that mind does occasionally experience some degree of what is called, consciousness.

A 'well-placed' effort is the one of mind studying mind, the mind trying to know itself AS itself, not as the incessant thoughts flowing through it. 'Misplaced' efforts are, humans trying to study the details of those various thoughts - whether the equations and grammars and definitions and apparent meanings, "meet with" some "criteria" previously established by similar aggregations of thoughts. I.e., one thought commenting upon other thoughts. THAT, sirs and sirettes, is NOT mind studying mind. THAT, is thoughts commenting upon thoughts, just like blood trying to understand the pumping of the heart by analyzing the components of blood - red cells, white cells, platelets, etc. do not the heart make. Blood can't 'know Heart', anymore than Thought can 'know Mind'.

It doesn't matter what a person "thinks" is the "cause of the arising" of those thoughts - they come from Life, from elsewhere, but NOT from oneself - so once thoughts are flowing through it, giving it (mind) it's transitory "life of existence", it's already too late to discover what mind is, sans thought.

That is, you can't think about "what is mind?", and then proceed to "answer the question", you can only experience it AS itself. THEN, just like nature abhors a vacuum, mind fills itself with the other 'matter' available to it - activity, and that activity is none other than the aforementioned thoughts - so it: reads books, engages in conversations, watches tv, etc.

The only 'method' to achieve that knowing, is tantamount to Stopping Thought - but NOT for the purpose of knowing something, but for the observations that can be experienced sans thought.

One would NEVER reveal to himself or others, that "I can stop thought for 30 minutes a day." or "I can remember myself 100 times a day." or "I can stay awake 8 hours a day every day." or anything like that. To do so, is to be lying to oneself. A thought that "says that" is lying. That thought disappears and one is back asleep for who knows how long.

Stopping thought is an idea older than old - in fact, pre-human, all there WAS was "stopped thought", in the sense that there was no thought at all. Then, came man, and then came consciousness in man, then came thoughts flowing therein, and the time all this took, was mere moments. Man, consciousness (sans thought), thoughts. The progression now, for us, is the radical acceleration of the process of thinking - which comes from studying mind, NOT studying thoughts flowing through minds, either from long-dead people, or still-living people, or yourself.

There is no such thing as, "better, smarter, more intelligent" thoughts. What there IS (or can be), is "better, smarter, more intelligent" consciousness - which IS another definition of evolution, or more precisely for those who achieve it, REVOLUTION over ordinary, dull-witted, consciousness.

Self-remembering, chanting a single word, watching the breath, meditating on a symbol or word or sound, are ALL just "methods" to stop the ordinary flow of thoughts, to "stop thought". But the Goal, which it is not, or Aim, which it is not, is not the STOPPING, it is the observations that can be made from that newer, expanded view only possible when Mind exists, sans thought.

Very soon after one starts thinking in this way about his inner operations, he discovers that mind (as he knows it in himself) doesn't exist when thoughts are not flowing through it, that is, he is asleep then and NO ONE knows what being asleep means beyond that. When a person is dead unconscious in a darkened room, dreams become for him, a "higher state of mind". When a person is asleep in dreams, then consciousness becomes for him, a "higher state of mind". When a person is conscious, he can SEE what sleep means, but he can not describe it (won't even attempt it), because the descriptions are the contents of that sleep.

Expanding the nervous system - in the head, in the brain, in the highest farthest outreaches of the cortex, into areas which are NOT being fed by blood or electricity now - is the direction of evolution wherein such SEEING "the lower" is possible. Man is way more conscious, in general, than men were 100 years ago, 500, 1000, etc. AND, more importantly for the few who understand that, men in 500, 1000, 2000 years will be way more conscious, in general, than men living today. AND, WAY MORE IMPORTANTLY for the few of the few who understand that, YOU (me, the other guy), can be conscious today the way men of the future will be in their day, and that means something!!!

It's like jumping over your own knees.
It's like seeing into your own eyes.
It's like living in the Future.

This entire ad hoc message was not, "an answer", of course, but a performance piece on the topic: "what is mind sans thought". Each person is left with the possibility of performing his own piece on whatever topics he feels suitable to spend time on. If analyzing previously-received thoughts is suitable to you, then so be it. For some, it's not a suitable expenditure of energy.

Books

Every teaching/system that purports to be about human evolution, change of being, waking up, enlightenment - those things about which man has absolutely no prior knowledge, until first hearing/reading about those supposed possibilities - requires the use of books. There are no teachings/systems that have come to mankind, living today, that are not transmitted, in whole or in part, by the use of the written word, in books (from stone tablets, to parchments, to books, tapes and videos usually with transcripts). The only problem is that the information a person needs to achieve/realize those possibilities doesn't come from any books ever written. Whatever actually gets written down, is such a poor reflection of what prompted it's writing - no matter who wrote it - that it might as well not have been written at all.

Some teachings/systems require many more books than others - and so, even complicate the problem further - but at least one is absolutely required.

Furthermore, it is not the physical body, which first learns about these possibilities, nor is it the limbic system, which suspects or discovers them - although, and this is very evident even from an early age, each person recognizes a certain un easiness, about the life he knows ordinarily, and dreams about other, fantastical things from an early age. No, it requires a normal, ordinarily functioning intellect - that can read/write and maybe even do some rudimentary 'rithmetic - to discover, first, that there ARE human possibilities of existence he knows absolutely nothing about already, and second, that there is a supposed "WAY" to achieve or realize them. Very, very few move beyond that point, as few consider it worthy of their further time and energy.

The only thing a person knows, from birth till death, is that as he ordinarily is, he is not completely satisfied with his existence on Earth, and doesn't know what to do about that, except criticize (himself and others and Life), condemn (himself and others for poor performance and ignorance, and Life for "being somehow against him or mankind"), and complain (bitch, moan, and whine.)

So, once again, what's one left to do? Go find a book. Lots of books, read many or a few, and start thinking about them, talking about them internally and with others, and "hope for the best". This does not change, just because one also joins a group of any kind - from the most respected, long-lived, credentialed School of Human Development, to the most flagrantly fly-by-night gang of misled, new-age gurus and other similar frauds and phonies. But, in the end, it all comes to nothing. Hundreds of thousands of books and readers and followers, Tens, or Hundreds, or Thousands of groups and willing members, and what's to show for it? More mass-confusion about what's possible, and how to achieve it.

The New Information a person - any person, whether born today or 3000 years ago - needs, to achieve/realize the "possibilities" he only suspects (for having been circulating around the peripheries of mans' intellectual pursuits since he could first think and speak), is simply NOT available out there in Life's storage bins, and trash heaps of ideas, going by such higher-sounding names, as Zen, Buddhism, Islam, Christianity, FourthWay, Advaita, or whatever - nor is it to be discovered coming from out the mouths of anyone publically or privately associated with such higher-sounding teachings/systems in Life's waiting rooms, and out houses of masters, teachers, gurus, men#5-7's and above.

The New Information a person needs to discover/realize the possibilities of what actually being human is all about, what it means, and what a conscious person can do with such New Information when it reaches the intensity that it can reach, exists in only one place - in consciousness, and consciousness can not be contained/restrained by physical media. Consciousness is energy, and Information is energy, and Man is an energy transforming station that is perfect - just AS he is, no change required - for the job of transforming Life energy. All humans are born capable of doing Life's business here on Earth - for Life's purposes exclusively, whatever they may be.

The un easiness all men feel/sense about being alive, is that a part of their ordinary consciousness realizes at all times, they are a slave to that design, they are an employee not a manager, they are a product of Life's factory not a service of Life itself - that is, they realize they individually have NO SAY WHATSOEVER as to how their lives progress, it is (can be, should be) perceived as totally automatic, accidental, and mechanical. So, a part of their consciousness, is "will to ACT", and a part of their consciousness is mechanical "thought about action".

The first change possible for a man with access to New Information, is understanding the idea that "thought about action" need not be mechanical, and when it is not - but conscious - one can think without words, think about something without remembering it, remember something without thinking about it, think about more than one thing at a time, think with energy alone, and Silence becomes more and more a prevailing feature of one's inner mental life.

This is definitely NOT to say, that one stops using words - internally or externally - but that one NEED NOT use them to think, and only when that skill is achieved, can one start to plumb the depths of the Information Pool which is Life itself speaking to one - directly. A person, almost with tongue-in-cheek, starts channeling the Big Guy Himself - Life, and knows at certain times what Life knows about certain things. This realization when it happens, is like a puff of helium into an inflating balloon, the nervous system expands and consciousness rises.

Change

There is a strong tendency in all humans, to believe that, "growth of being", includes such features as, maintaining a "healthy" body, a "satisfying" emotional life, and a "stimulating" intellect - that is, to use them fully, or lose them. Thus, the primal flow driving the actions of all humans is to not only stay alive, but to improve - and improve is the correct word here, because their ordinary consciousness perceives a body in decay, an emotional life out-of-control, and an intellectual process not much more capable than a 15-year-old's, if that.

This process of change desired by all humans - to improve themselves >>as they see themselves<< - is conducted by the intellectual circuit of the nervous system, the cortex and frontal lobes, in conscious thought. A person always starts by making statements regarding what they see - "I'm too fat, not smart enough, get angry too quickly, lazy." A body doesn't look at itself and decide to lose weight, it is the one being fat, so obviously IT wants to be fat. The mind, thought, perceives and compares images and sounds, and certain measurements/reports are heard by that same consciousness as it reports on the body. "I'm too fat, I should lose weight, I will buy a Diet book, tomorrow." And so the process begins.

The person looks for a book, a teaching, a system, to teach his mind what to do and how to change - because he certainly can't do it himself! No way, no one can. Or so he, and everybody else, thinks and believes. He buys a diet book, a college text book, an anger-management self-help tape series, an exercise book. He reads, studies, commits parts to memory, writes out 3x5 index cards, and joins a group of other dedicated men and women withwhom he can share his efforts and experiences. And, of course, believes in the efficacy of such an activity, and presumes ultimate success.

But, all that - top to bottom - from initial realization he's too fat, to the action plan in-progress for years - is the INDIRECT WAY. It is Indirect, because it is not initiated by the person from within. It is the ordinary person, being quite common and ordinary. He is simply doing what everybody does, in exactly the same way everybody does it, and justifying it to himself, in precisely the same ways.

The DIRECT WAY, is one which comes from oneself FIRST - it is his intentional invention of a Creation Myth, in which he plays all the parts, God, Adam, and Fred.

The DIRECT WAY, is one that can't be taught, or written down, until it is spoken, and only then - with great effort and consideration - quite sparingly. Because ordinary consciousness that would hear it said, would not understand it, for it all but busts logic, and turns ordinary reasoning on it's head.

The DIRECT WAY, occurs in those moments when Life, all around and abundantly alive - as it always is - reveals - as it continually does - those processes which are intertwining right then, to produce in matter, form, and energy, shadings and outlines which are usually totally missed, but now, are impossible to miss - they are perceived in consciousness. Almost like looking up at a sky full of clouds on a breezy spring afternoon, and seeing scenes and scenery of a meta- hyper- "physical" topology, that just as quickly melts into another completely different, yet wholly consistent, reality, and the consciousness experiencing all this, is, as it were, transported to those "places" which have never been activated before.

The DIRECT WAY, is the intentional myth-making/realization extension of the circuitry of the nervous system one was born with - not "for a reason" (like living longer, healthier, or happier...), but, simply, on purpose.

The DIRECT WAY, is the Action.
The INDIRECT WAY, is the thinking of action.

As long as the thinking of action is limited, then so is the possibility of action.